In our first episode of the year, David speaks with Sue Stolton and Nigel Dudley, proponents of the protected area movement for more than 20 years and the partners behind Equilibrium Research, a conservation consultancy offering practical solutions to conservation challenges, from concept, to implementation, to evaluation of impact. Sue and Nigel discuss the social origins of protected areas, the evolution of protected areas conservation as a force for climate change mitigation, their Protected Areas Benefit Assessment Tool and discuss their hopes for the future of protected areas in light of the Global Biodiversity Framework's "30x30" Target.  Sue and Nigel speak about the importance of empowering local and indigenous communities in OECM and PA management and integrating input from local communities in the policies surrounding these areas. They share with David their hope that more work can go into discovering what the wider social values and benefits of PA’s are for local communities, beyond the economic impact of protecting and restoring nature.  Learn more about Sue Stolton and Nigel Dudley’s work and the critical role of area-based conservation in their new book, “Leaving Space for Nature”.