Shawn welcomes fellow podcaster Dan White to the show to discuss his podcasts, QUEER MAGNOLIAS and OUT WITH DAN, the importance of listening to diverse voices and points of view, finding your people, mutual friends, travel, eating and drinking, and Agatha Christie.

Shawn and Cindy chat about her debut novel, OBEY ALL LAWS, life as a parole officer, dogs, second chances, making mistakes, organic writing, and writing drunk and editing sober.