In this episode, we are joined again by both Jo Ramirez-Messina and Jeff Newman, two leaders of the reform ABA movement. If you are a behavior analyst wondering how to build your ableism lens, this is where it should start. Jeff and Jo explicitly describe what neurodiversity is and is not as well as talks about the barriers and needs of the ABA reform movement. To learn more about this movement please visit their facebook page at https://www.facebook.com/groups/ABAReform As always, we hope that you enjoy the conversation, as much as we enjoyed recording it. Please follow us on FB @BeautifulHumansCast or IG @BeautifulHumansChange --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/beautiful-humans/support