Leonard Cohen said, “the poor stay poor, the rich get rich, that’s how it goes, and everybody knows”. Well, once you know, then what?  In punk culture, there's a general understanding that the world is f****d up and unfair. But what does that actually mean? If the outcome of the game is predetermined (and you are pretty sure you are a born loser), then what do you do? Do you walk away from the table? Flip it? Set it on fire? Try to cheat? If winning this game makes you a capitalist pig but losing means you don't have enough resources to get by, is there a third option that isn't winning or losing?  In this episode of Bottom Lines Top Dollars, we go deep into confronting a key concept in punk culture that kept both of us from engaging with money for a long time: the idea that capitalism is un-winnable for most and a golden ticket for the few. And though we don't disagree with that idea, we discuss how this dichotomy can result in social norms that discourage understanding the fundamentals of money and economics and may not be helpful in finding ways to survive (both as individuals and as a world falling over the edge of crisis). You already know that both of The Ladies Who Crunch are queer punks who made careers in finance, but this episode really digs into how doing this required breaking away from the dichotomy of "drop out or sell out" to carve out new paths for ourselves. It is clear that we have more questions than answers, but this episode is all about that process of finding new ways to engage with money (& how we earn it & the stuff it buys) that allows us to personally thrive while still being in alignment with our values.    --- This episode is part of our second season. We are calling this season "Punks Not Dead and Capitalism Still Sucks" and it explores the question: how did 90s and 2000’s punk intersect with money, and what can that teach us today? What if you don’t “Live fast die young,” but have to meet needs over the course of your longer-than-expected life instead? Listeners will hear stories -- from “the punkest way I ever made money,” to “the worst minimum wage job I ever had,” to “magic b******t I did to try to avoid working” -- as well as learn facts about how the financial systems around us operate. The show is written and produced by the Ladies Who Crunch: Queer femme artist/organizers turned financial professionals Laura and Hadassah, who explore the alternative ways of being that crafted the bedrock of who they are today to understand what they learned - and had to unlearn - from punk in order to figure out their money lives and to understand financial systems. ------- The Ladies Who Crunch are Hadassah Damien and Laura Boo. More information about us and this podcast can be found at ladieswhocrunch.club. Please follow us on Instagram (@bottomlinestopdollars) and if you want to send us questions or episode ideas, email us at [email protected].