On this episode, Remfry and Simon speak to Joe Clayton, mastermind behind Manchester-based post-rock collective Pijn. They discuss the writing and recording behind Pijn's latest masterpiece From Low Beams of Hope and how they've made road-testing new material live a creative part of the writing process, with some songs debuting in the set years before a recorded version is released. Joe has also produced many records from his base at No Studio, including albums by Wallowing, Tuskar, Mountain Caller, Din of Celestial Birds, Hundred Year Old Man, Leeched, Wode and many more. Joe's choice of show is an early outing from Oathbreaker in Manchester during their tour for their second album Eros​|​Anteros, a show which he is able to give a unique perspective on as he was one of the people that helped put the Manchester date on.