Rodger Savory is an ecologist, land manager, and ranch owner who worked in his Holistic Management, the ecorestoration movement his dad Alan Savory started. He set himself the goal of figuring out how to turn deserts into grasslands. His website is www.fixdeserts.com The article that goes with this podcast is at https://climatewaterproject.substack.com/p/cows-chickens-microbes-and-fungi