What a searching, stimulating conversation this was. Elisa Gabbert [http://www.elisagabbert.com/] joins the podcast to talk about a poem she and I have both long loved, Sylvia Plath's "Lady Lazarus [https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/49000/lady-lazarus]." Elisa is a poet, critic, and essayist—and the author of several books. Her recent titles include Normal Distance [https://softskull.com/books/normal-distance/] (Soft Skull, 2022), The Unreality of Memory [https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780374538347] (FSG Originals, 2020), and The Word Pretty [https://www.blackocean.org/catalog1/the-word-pretty] (Black Ocean, 2018). She has a new book of essays coming out next year: Any Person Is the Only Self [https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780374605896](FSG, 2024). Elisa writes the "On Poetry" column for The New York Times, and she regularly reviews new books of poetry there and elsewhere. You can follow Elisa on Twitter [https://twitter.com/egabbert]. Please follow, rate, review, and share the podcast if you like what you hear. And subscribe to my Substack [https://kamranjavadizadeh.substack.com/], where you'll get occasional updates about the podcast and other news about my work.