Jon and Jay sit down to discuss what a program is, what a product is and what the difference between the two is. Are they company-specific and completely unrelated, or, are they reliant on each other? This light-hearted episode covers the ins and outs of products and programs.

Jon and Rafe sit down to discuss how things changed for Depop, after the Etsy acquisition, what the CPTO role comprises and when makes sense for an organisation to have one. They also cover how to avoid the pitfalls of measuring engineering productivity.