In this episode, Xavier Bonilla has a dialogue with Nicola Clayton about cognition across many animals. They define cognition in humans and in animals, intelligence, using magic to understand cognition in animals, embodied mind in animals, and comparative cognition as a type of convergent evolution. They discuss difficulties in using human measures for evaluating animal cognition, New Caledonian crows and their intelligence, consciousness, the future of comparative cognition research, and many more topics. Nicola Clayton is Professor of Comparative Cognition in the Department of Psychology at the University of Cambridge, a Fellow of Clare College and a Fellow of the Royal Society. Her main interests areas are comparative cognition and the evolution and development of intelligence in non-verbal animals and pre-verbal children. She is currently President of the British Science Association Psychology Section. She is also in residence at Rambert Dance Company. Website: https://www.psychol.cam.ac.uk/people/nsc22%40cam.ac.uk Get full access to Converging Dialogues at convergingdialogues.substack.com/subscribe