Yan Jun lives in Beijing. He writes poetry, makes music and works with sound. A few years ago he noticed a group of other artists in the city who, like himself, had begun making performances which slipped past easy definition. These could take the form of one person having a conversation with their mum on the phone on stage, an audience member disassembling a mandolin or a woman eating an apple. There was a playfulness at the core of this scene which wasn’t interested in manifestos or comparisons to Fluxus. In this podcast we hear Yan’s personal journey through the idea of non music. We hear from some of the Beijing artists and promoters who are at the centre of this group and how musicians navigate being in this experimental music scene while often existing simultaneously in other musical worlds. Yan talks to Li Qing, the drummer in indie rock band Car-sick cars and snapline, in a local restaurant. We hear from promoter, music and label boss Zhu Wembo underneath a large underpass and from Ake, an outsider artist who taught herself violin after finding one in a local junk store.