I won’t lie: This conversation was hard as hell. But — I’m so grateful to Lisa Lahey and all the work she and Robert Kegan have done on the “immunity to change” theory. It explains why lasting, meaningful change is damn hard. Rather than simply talking about the process, Lisa and I actually engage in it around something I’m desperate to change (and somewhat refusing to change). She is so skilled at asking questions and framing conversations — this is a MASTER class Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices