The final goal of our practice, release, is not something that can be described in words, as it lies beyond the range of thoughts, perceptions and concepts. In fact, the final goal is to experience the complete cessation of thoughts and all other conditioned phenomena. Consequently, the teachings of the Buddha are are not the final goal itself. Instead, they are simply tools to guide us towards this final goal. They have to be used as a raft, helping us to cross the ocean of Saṃsāra and reach the other shore: Freedom, Nibbāna. For example 'DEPENDENT ORIGIANTION' (Paṭicca Samuppāda): The point is not to develop and attach to and identify with one particular intellectual interpretation of the twelve links and their relationships. The real point is to experience the cessation of all links. This is not something that can be achieved by intellectual reasoning. Total detachment from all links, leading to their cessation in our own direct experience, can only occur as the result of meditative insight (bhāvanā-mayā-paññā). Our intellectual understanding is 'right' if it leads to such total detachment. If it leads instead to attachment, conceit, disagreements and arguments, it's 'wrong' - 'wrong' not in a sense of objective, absolute 'wrongness', but wrong in the sense that it leads away from the goal that the Buddha intended for this meditative tool, namely letting go. The verses Ajahn Moneyyo and Ajahn Dhammasiha were quoting towards the end of the podcast are: Suttanipata Verses #1080 to #1082 www.dhammagiri.net .