Welcome to Episode 8. of  Growing Ecommerce. Today Mike is joined by two guests, Kirk Williams, owner of ZATO marketing making his second appearance on the show, and Ben Kruger who's a senior ecommerce growth consultant at Google.  In exchange for a packed agenda you get a stimulating conversation about the grand brand-non brand debate in Google ads, the ways in which PMax is like paid social and the discussion about whether or not CPCs matter anymore.