In this episode, we explore demand avoidance, a common experience among neurodivergent people. We delve into the factors contributing to demand avoidance, including executive functioning challenges, sensory issues, and a desire for autonomy. Additionally, we take a closer look at Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA), also known as Pervasive Drive for Autonomy, a complex and often misunderstood subtype of autism. Join us as we navigate this important topic, gaining a deeper understanding of demand avoidance and its impact on neurodivergent lives. Dr. Megan Anna Neff, an AuDHDer psychologist and mother of a child with PDA, describes it as "anything that comes at the person that threatens autonomy invokes an extreme fight-flight response," and says that it can be seen through a lens of "nervous system through stress response," making it different than something like oppositional defiant disorder or conduct disorder. Individuals with PDA sometimes develop sophisticated and subtle masking strategies to appear compliant and cooperative on the outside, even though they may struggle internally, which can involve imitating expected social behaviors and responses while suppressing their genuine feelings of overwhelm and resistance. In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Neff speak with Tara Holmquist, PsyD, about PDA and her personal experience as an AuDHDer with PDA. If you're interested in learning more about PDA, trauma, and demand avoidance, this episode is for you. Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode: Understand how PDA shows up in the lives of those who have it and how it both internally and externally impacts their lives. See how demand avoidance is often a coping mechanism rooted in trauma. Learn coping strategies and skills for managing demands. PDA can be a painful and overwhelming internal struggle that also manifests in ways that aren't always received well on the external side of things when the pressure of demands just becomes too much.  This episode aims to shed some light on the complex world of demand avoidance and PDA to gain a deeper understanding.  More about Tara Holmquist: Tara is a clinical psychologist licensed in CA and WI. She has been in private practice for about 5 years working with adults with relational/attachment trauma, as well as addiction/substance use. Her practice is exclusively telehealth, and her practice values include a heavy examination and challenge of implicit biases, internalized capitalism, and patriarchal leanings. Her practice is trauma and social justice informed. And she's a pretty cool regular human too. Tara's Facebook: facebook.com/tmhpsych Tara's Instagram: instagram.com/tmhpsychotherapy Additional Resources: Dr. Neff's blog post on "Autism PDA Explained: The Core Characteristics of Pathological Demand Avoidance" PDA MasterClass: For an in-depth clinical definition of PDA, check out Neurodivergent Insights MasterClass featuring Dr. Donna Henderson.   Transcript PATRICK CASALE: Hey, everyone, you are listening to the Divergent Conversations Podcast. We are two neurodivergent mental health professionals in a neurotypical world. I'm Patrick Casale. MEGAN NEFF: And I'm Dr. Neff. PATRICK CASALE: And during these episodes, we do talk about sensitive subjects, mental health, and there are some conversations that can certainly feel a bit overwhelming. So, we do just want to use that disclosure and disclaimer before jumping in. And thanks for listening. PATRICK CASALE: Hey everyone, you're listening to another episode of the Divergent Conversations Podcast. Today we've got a wonderful guest on, a good friend, and colleague, Dr. Tara Holmquist. She is a PsyD in California, lives in Wisconsin. And today we are going to talk about PDA. So, Tara, thank you so much for coming on and just share a little bit about who you are.  TARA HOLMQUIST: Yeah, and thank you again for having me. Megan, very, very nice to meet you. I'm excited about today. I'm excited about this experience