Summary In this episode of The Expanseive, John Sanei and Erik Kruger introduce a new series called Friends of The Expanseive, where they invite guests to share their insights and perspectives. They are joined by Rowan Gibson, a business romantic who believes in the power of businesses to drive societal change. The conversation revolves around the challenges of change and transformation in organizations, particularly in the face of resistance and fear. They discuss the need for wisdom in navigating change and the importance of moving away from short-term thinking and embracing a more holistic and long-term approach. The conversation explores the concepts of big C and small c change, focusing on personal and organizational transformation. The guests discuss the challenges of implementing big C change in large organizations and emphasize the importance of engaging leaders in their big selves. They also highlight the need for emotional shifts and paradigm changes in order to drive successful change. The conversation touches on the idea of personal transformation and the importance of having a warm, engaging conversation with oneself. The guests share their own experiences with personal change and the need for patience and coherence in the process. They also discuss the different approaches to change, highlighting the importance of feeling and not forcing change. The conversation concludes with a discussion on the role of timing and courage in implementing change.