Reporter Georgia Gee speaks with Peter Pomerantsev, a Kyiv-born expert in propaganda and disinformation. His books Nothing Is True and Everything Is Possible and This is Not Propaganda outline how Russia and others have weaponized the perception of truth. Today, Russia is waging two wars against Ukraine. One is on the ground. The other is being fought online, on the internet and television. Even before launching its full-scale invasion last February, the Kremlin spent years propagating narratives about Ukraine. For example: Putin pushed the idea that Ukrainians and Russians were really just one people. That Ukrainian wasn’t really a language. And that the country was just a puppet of the west, and didn’t deserve to be a sovereign state. Russia uses these narratives to try to justify its violence in Ukraine — to its citizens and the rest of the world — and according to Pomerantsev, we need to find new ways to fight back. Make sure to subscribe to Brazen Presents for more – and, as always, you can follow our latest reporting in our newsletter, Whale Hunting. For ad-free listening, exclusive bonus content and early access to Project Brazen podcasts, subscribe to our channel on the Apple Podcasts app. You can try the subscription free for 7 days by going to apple.co/brazen www.projectbrazen.com