Sofia Wilhelmsson researches a very specific and stressful time for farmed pigs: the loading and transport of pigs on their way to slaughter.  She not only considers the welfare of the animals, but also the well-being of the pig transport drivers. In our conversation we chat about the relationships that humans have with animals; what food systems actors have the most power in the pig production system; and whether we can add incentives for animal welfare and human well-being in our food systems. For more info, please visit: https://tabledebates.org/podcast/episode54 Interested in more podcasts about the future of meat and human-animal relations, Meat the four futures (Table, 2023) Barbecue Earth (Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, 2024)