Kieran talks with Louise Shelley, PhD, Director of the Terrorism, Transnational Crime and Corruption Center (TraCCC) at George Mason University, about how terrorist organizations are funding themselves by engaging in illicit trade finance, often in partnership with transnational criminal organization. During their discussion, Dr. Shelly, the author of numerous publications whose most recent book is “Dark Commerce: How a New Illicit Economy is Threatening our Future,” shares typologies and identifies some of the organizations, facilitators and financiers engaged in illicit trade. While crediting the financial services industry with taking steps to stem illicit trade, she calls on the industry and others to do more, not least by joining with law enforcement and others in effective public private partnerships focused on illicit trade.