We all agree competencies are key to fire safety. We have discussed this. We have argued about this. We have come up with decent sets of core competencies, course curricula and numerous courses and modules that help us be competent in what we are doing. This podcast is to keep me and you competent in what we are doing. But this is insufficient in the modern world. Because it is not just us who need to be competent. Today I've invited Dr Michael Woodrow from UCL to talk about what fire competencies mean for FSEs and for other stakeholders in the design process, with a very very strong emphasis on the architects. What is the difference between an architect that understands the fundamentals of fire safety, and one that wants to complete a box-ticking exercise?  What those fundamentals actually are for someone who is not (and is not expected to be) an FSE? And how the changing UK post-Grenfell environment makes this discussion today more relevant than ever. You need to listen to this episode and share it with your architect friends. And once you are done with it, you are probably interested in all this Fire Safe Design MArch discussed in the show. Here it is! And while we are searching for great resources, here is Michael's paper on competencies, enjoy.