The objects designed by Formafantasma often function as tools to enter a conversation rather than being the outcome of their in-depth research processes. Looking beyond common definitions, they consider all the ecology that goes around the discipline - like infrastructures of material extraction and distribution - a design issue. In the 50th episode of the Hurra Hurra Podcast, Andrea Trimarchi and Simone Farresin are talking with Christian Zöllner about ways to engage with “objects as world makers” within “The School of the Untold” at the Design Campus Dresden or with their students in the GEO-Design master’s program at Design Academy Eindhoven.