Excellent futurist and Africa analyst Koffi Kouakou (The Centre for Africa-Chinese Studies, University of Johannesburg) joined me for a fascinating debate about ANC voters. He had listened to my previous episode, episode 145- 'Ramaphosa told you why you shouldn't vote ANC' ( https://podcasts.apple.com/za/podcast/episode-145-ramaphosa-told-you-why-you-shouldnt-vote-anc/id1561851417?i=1000593632513 ) and wanted to put the ANC voter on trial.  Koffi agreed with my main analysis ( https://www.timeslive.co.za/ideas/2023-01-10-eusebius-mckaiser-ramaphosa-told-you-why-you-shouldnt-vote-anc/ ) that the ANC's January 8th statement is an argument for not voting ANC.  But he is puzzled by why so many ANC voters nevertheless still vote ANC despite this seemingly not being in their material interest? This podcast episode is based on several days of back and forth engagement between us. We ended up having a WhatsApp dialectic about the dangers of psychological analysis when it comes to making sense of ANY voter; laying out a basis for carefully exploring, neverthless, important and puzzling questions about voting trends in SA in light of the main empirical data about the state of the nation, and we then actually allowed ourselves the freedom to ask and explore such questions as, "Are ANC voters suffering Stockholm Syndrome?" Or, "Is there is a puzzle of domination here that requires explanations from political theory to make sense of? Do ANC voters - irrationally? - consent to their own domination?" Etc. You decide where you land in these debates. I hope you are stimulated. I am confident you will be. And I thank Koffi for giving permission for our engagement that started off privately to be curated into a podcast episode.  It is a little nerdish at times, but that is why you, dear listener, are part of In The Ring With Eusebius McKaiser. We are complex. And not every aspect of our lives are reducible to cheap slogans or memes. Or an easy laugh. In this podcast, we flip between laughter and drilling down deep when necessary.  Enjoy and re-listen to this episode a few times to get more out of it. If needs be. Also do share it with your friends. Kindly!  Please rate us and leave a review! And SUBSCRIBE before you leave the podcast platform.  Ciao