Host Brian Stelter talks to Vanity Fair’s Abigail Tracy and veteran political journalist John Harwood about Kevin McCarthy’s failure to control his House GOP caucus as a government shutdown looms. Bombthrowers like Matt Gaetz, Marjorie Taylor Greene, and Lauren Boebert are “not serious people,” says Harwood, a Polis Distinguished Fellow at Duke University. “They're on television, they have podcasts or whatever,” he adds, “but they're not built to do what politicians have to do to make government work.”  Share your thoughts via our Listener Survey here: https://selfserve.decipherinc.com/survey/selfserve/222b/75187?pin=1&uBRANDLINK=5&uCHANNELLINK=2 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices