John Karren is the owner and co-founder of Elements Wilderness Program in Utah. John helps run two therapeutic wilderness programs: Elements is for boys thirteen to seventeen, and Traverse is all gender, young adults eighteen to twenty five. Today, John joins the show to discuss ‘non-traditional’ therapies and how the outdoors can be such a great benefit to everyone. Key Takeaways01:03 – Shay Butts welcomes John Karren to the show to discuss wilderness therapy and other ‘non- traditional’ therapy options 10:08 – How Elements Wilderness Program works 14:42 – Dealing with the negativity surrounding outdoor therapy 18:51 – Striving for excellence 23:40 – The role parents play in Elements Wilderness Program 26:53 – Shay thanks John for sharing his story today Tweetable Quotes“I think the biggest thing for us is that if the client doesn’t buy in, there will be no change. If we’re punishing them or consequencing them, they’re going to do it until the consequence has been lifted. So, really the focus for us is to get them to buy into themselves - to get them to understand what I’m feeling.” (10:29) (John)“For us - the clinical approach - we think of ourselves as a high-intense therapeutic intervention. And so, it’s a deep dive into what’s going on for me, for my family, for everything in my life, and then working through that in different ways.” (12:09) (John)“That’s the hardest part for me, it just tears at me knowing the value of what can happen with [outdoor therapy], and the change that can occur, and the excitement, and then to hear people just bash it and speak negatively about it. It’s hard.” (17:32) (John)“When people think about Wilderness, they think it’s just sending their child off. And I tell parents all the time, ‘You’re not sending your child away. You’re going on the journey with them.’” (23:50) (John)Resources MentionedJFlowers Health Institute – https://jflowershealth.com/ JFlowers Health Institute Contact – (713) 783-6655 Subscribe on your favorite player: https://understanding-the-human-condition.captivate.fm/listen John’s LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnkarren/ Elements Wilderness Website – https://www.elementswilderness.com/ Shay Butts’ LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/shay-butts-8963b217/ **The views and opinions expressed by our guests are those of the individual and do not necessarily reflect those of J. Flowers Health Institute. Any content provided by our co-host(s) or guests are of their opinion and are not intended to reflect the philosophy and policies of J. Flowers Health Institute itself. Nor is it intended to malign any recovery method, religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company, individual, or anyone or anything. 🎙️🎙️🎙️ Podcast Production & Marketing by FullCast This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: Chartable - https://chartable.com/privacy