Does anything mean anything? If so, how do we know? And if all we have are words to define other words, what is the origin of language itself? Poet Amir Sulaiman and rapper Brother Ali are back with Mo and AZ to discuss the origins of the universe, language evolution, and, well, everything.  Guests: Amir Sulaiman, Brother Ali ORIGINAL AUDIO PRODUCTION, MUSIC & SOUND DESIGN BY SALT Executive Produced by Mo Amer, Azhar Usman, Noah Gersh, Jamie Schefman, Nick Panama, Kenzi Wilbur Head of Creative: Jordan Galvan  Head of Production: Liz LeMay Head of Post Production: Robert Adler Producers: Imran Ali Malik & Aaron Kennedy  Supervising Producers: Allie Strobel & Alice Bearn Post Production Supervisor: Aly Honoré Post Production Coordinator: Jax Raffle  Edited by: Geoffrey Mutchnik and Aaron Kennedy  Sound Design and Music by: Matthew Chilelli Mixed by: Aaron Kennedy  Recorded by Aaron Kennedy, Zack Djurich and Mario Borgatta  Guest Booking by Drive Entertainment and Hager Eldaas Additional music courtesy of Extreme Music. Joking Not Joking is a Luminary Original, and a co-production between SALT, Legally Homeless, Inc., and Numinous Company, Inc.