In the ninth episode, I speak to Bérénice Guyot-Réchard, Senior Lecturer, King’s College London on her recent book - Shadow States: India, China, and the Himalayas, 1910-1962 published by Cambridge University Press in 2018. Through the book, Guyot-Réchard studies China–India relations not through high politics but from the bottom up to show how both countries sought to gain leverage by working to win over local groups in contested regions through a process called ‘state shadowing’. Understanding Sino-India relations and tensions, according to Guyot-Réchard, hinges on the challenges and pressures related to state-making. The conversation begins by understanding how Guyot-Réchard got interested in studying China-India relations and her path to this project. We then move to the book’s core and argument which deals with how both states shadowed each other across the Eastern border and how local groups perceived and worked with this ‘shadowing’. Next, we cover the kinds of sources used in the book and how narrative might turn out had Guyot-Réchard had sufficient access to Chinese language materials. The conversation ends by connecting the book to recent developments across the Sino-India border near Ladakh, which has experienced hostilities and casualties. Links https://www.cambridge.org/vi/academic/subjects/history/south-asian-history/shadow-states-india-china-and-himalayas-19101962?format=HB https://www.kcl.ac.uk/people/berenice-guyot-rechard