Shishir Mehrotra is the co-founder and CEO of Coda, and formerly head of product and engineering at YouTube. In this episode, he shares his insights on growth strategy, how he evaluates talent, a peek at his upcoming book The Rituals of Great Teams, why reference checks are the most important step in the interview process, and so much more. Join us. — Where to find Shishir Mehrotra: • Twitter: https://twitter.com/shishirmehrotra • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shishirmehrotra/ — Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com • Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ — Thank you to our wonderful sponsors for making this episode possible: • Coda: http://coda.io/lenny • Flatfile: https://www.flatfile.com/lenny • Eppo: https://www.geteppo.com/ — Referenced: • The Rituals of Great Teams Braintrust: https://coda.io/@shishir/join-the-rituals-of-great-teams-braintrust • Bing Gordon: https://www.kleinerperkins.com/people/bing-gordon/ • Switch by Chip Heath and Dan Heath: https://www.amazon.com/Switch-Change-Things-When-Hard/dp/0385528752 • PSHE diagram: https://coda.io/@shishir/pshe • Understanding Comics by Scott McCloud: https://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Comics-Invisible-Scott-McCloud/dp/1627652736 • Only Murders in the Building: https://www.hulu.com/series/only-murders-in-the-building-ef31c7e1-cd0f-4e07-848d-1cbfedb50ddf • WandaVision: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WandaVision • Fidji Simo: https://twitter.com/fidjissimo • Daniel Ek: https://twitter.com/eldsjal/ • Reid Hoffman: https://twitter.com/reidhoffman? • Mamoon Hamid: https://twitter.com/mamoonha • Quentin Clark: https://twitter.com/quentinclark • Sarah Guo: https://twitter.com/saranormous — In this episode, we cover: [4:13] Shishir’s background at Google and current role at Coda [7:53] How Shishir got on the board of Spotify [8:58] Black loops and blue loops and how Coda uses this internal diagram  [9:52] The black loop is how a product is naturally shared [12:15] The blue loop is the emotional loop on why products are shared [14:55] Why you should think in loops instead of funnels [18:20] Mining for your business’s loops by looking at what you tell job candidates [24:37] Shishir’s upcoming book The Rituals of Great Teams  [26:30] The 3 golden rituals of teams [27:10] Coda’s golden ritual: Dory and Pulse [31:29] Shishir’s most impactful rituals: Arianna Huffington’s reset, Gusto’s incredible hiring call, and Coinbase’s Rapids [40:38] How you find your own team’s rituals [42:50] How to change things when change is hard [45:01] Airbnb’s unique rituals [46:45] A backstory on YouTube, and valuing consistency over comprehensiveness [53:00] Eigenquestions: What they are, how to use them, and examples [59:05] One of Shishir’s favorite retired interview questions  [1:03:11] How to evaluate talent, a story about YouTube, and breaking down PSHE [1:15:20] How to approach reference checks and what questions to ask [1:24:33] Favorite books [1:25:50] Favorite TV shows and movies [1:26:50] Favorite interview questions [1:28:44] Who in the industry Shishir respects as a thought leader [1:30:10] His go-to karaoke song [1:30:40] Where you can find Shishir — Production and marketing: https://penname.co/