In this episode, Wendy speaks with renowned clinical psychologist, researcher, and co-developer of Mindfulness-Based Cognitive Therapy (MBCT), Zindel Segal. Zindel's work has brought relief to many who suffer from depression, by sharing the tools and skills of mindful awareness. This conversation covers many topics, including: his early experiences with meditation and psychology; the development of MBCT and its evolution; seeing thoughts as thoughts; the power of curiosity, kindness, and an attitude of letting be; clinical research on MBCT in depression; staying with difficult experiences; the latest thinking about how antidepressants work; a short guided meditation; the importance of sense foraging; using digital platforms and increasing accessibility to mindfulness skills; adapting practices for the challenges young people face today; how MBCT can shift the sense of self and identity; and how practice has changed him. Full resources and show notes