In this episode, Wendy speaks with psychologist and contemplative researcher Simon Goldberg. Simon uses tools drawn from psychotherapy research to better understand the therapeutic processes and outcomes of mindfulness and meditation-based interventions. This conversation covers many topics, including: coming to practice through one's own suffering; what we know from science about whether and how meditation "works;" the nuts and bolts of meditation research, and the importance of control groups; the file drawer effect and publishing negative findings; common factors in healing interventions; working with the self in psychotherapy vs. Buddhism; the critical role of acceptance; some challenges when measuring effects of meditation; individualizing contemplative practice to suit the person; delivering and studying meditation interventions through apps; and the possibilities of AI to help support meditation practice. Full show notes and resources