In this far-ranging conversation, we talk about the limitations of “McMindfulness” and discuss what it feels like to explore a new sense of self in the context of interaction. Ronald Purser, Ph.D. is the Lam-Larsen Distinguished Research Professor of Management at San Francisco State University. His latest book, McMindfulness: How Mindfulness Became the New Capitalist Spirituality, was published by Repeater Books/Penguin Random House. Dr. Purser is host of the Mindful Cranks podcast. See his website. Published August 2021.