In this legacy interview, leading psychologist Clinical Professor (at the University of California and New York University) Stephen Seligman, shares his lifetime’s clinical practice and thinking as an acclaimed psychoanalyst/psychotherapist with adults, children and infants.  He argues that today’s research on attachment and human development changes how we should think about babies, brains, families and psychotherapy. Stephen discusses his extensive work with children and families, teaching and writing on childhood and his in-depth study of psychoanalytic theory and practice alongside developmental and attachment research. In this wide-ranging discussion with Jane O’Rourke, Stephen challenges colleagues to get out of their ‘theoretical and professional silos’ to embrace new research and ideas alongside traditional thinking so we can better serve the children and families we work with. He also discusses what the Relational School is in psychoanalysis and why it's a helpful approach. Hightlights: 0:00 Start 0:55 Why did Stephen Seligman become a psychotherapist? 1:45  Importance of bringing in thinking from different areas of expertise, getting out of our ‘silos’ makes us do better work. 3:35  Reference to Stephen Seligman’s latest book, ‘Relationships in Development’. 3:40 The Relational School what it is - led by Stephen Mitchell He ‘offered a more flexible and open stance with regard to theory, contact with adjacent disciplines and clinical work’. Relational psychoanalysis encourages us to acknowledge us as humans and understand development. 5:35 Meaning of a ‘Developmental’ approach in psychotherapy. It’s the capacity of individuals and systems to change over time. Children have the most growth potential, forward-moving development is important to keep in mind, along with the restrictions of the past. 7:41 Intersubjectivity – what it is and why it’s so important in relationships and shaping who we are in every moment. 9:24 How can relational, developmental and intersubjective approaches be helpful working with children? 10:39 We are responsive to others’ suffering and lots of other influences. We should not be ashamed of that. Our capacity to connect and respond to others is a resource we can share with colleagues. 11:39 Emotions and reflection lie at the heart of intersubjectivity.  Emotions are individual and social simultaneously.   13:20 Importance of early intervention with young children. Picture of James Heckman’s The Heckman curve – shows economic impact of investing in early childhood learning.   15:21 Brain development in the first few years. Early relationships are the most important predictors of developmental outcomes in later years   17:09 The history of Attachment Theory 18:55 Rivalries between different schools of thinking in psychoanalysis   20:20 Melanie Klein’s theories can be very valuable for incorporating into thinking, especially for post-traumatic situations             21:16 Sometimes, though, “psychoanalysts are not always thinking about real children”.   23:00 The history of parent-infant psychotherapy: Working with parents and the influence of Selma Fraiberg infant-parent program   26:33-35:12  Case examples of parent-child psychotherapy   36:54 ‘Relationships in Development: Infancy, Intersubjectivity and Attachment’ by Stephen Seligman. Discusses his book 47:27 How child psychotherapy training benefits therapeutic work with adults.    50:11 Relational psychoanalysis & self-disclosure. 53:32 Crucial role and contribution of women to psychoanalysis eg Anna Freud and Melanie Klein