Recorded in May 2020 during Lockdown we began our conversation with a reading by Alice from her book, Rootbound, and discuss the way in which gardening can start as a a thought 'I'll just do that...' and become a whole day activity, and that it's quite possible to undertake this activity whilst in PJs. From there we move on to discussing the way in which gardening her balcony, despite being an unfashionable activity among those of her generation, soothed and supported her through a personal crisis, about the history of women in gardening and how gardening is political. My introduction to the conversation reflects my discomfort and regret that when we recorded, ahead of George Floyd's murder, my awareness was so lacking that we didn't discuss the ways in which the gardening world has, and does, also discriminate against Black and Indigenous People of Colour. I decided to proceed with publishing the episode nonetheless as a marker in time, and hopefully, progress.