Many teachers aspire to work at progressive schools that are more kind, individualized, and humane. But what do you do when even the “best schools” still treat kids with distrust and coercion? Aaron Eden has asked this question over his long career in education, ultimately leading him to his current position as Executive Director at the Institute for Applied Tinkering (which oversees the Brightworks School in San Francisco). We discuss Aaron's journey away from techno-optimism, the subtle art of offering voluntary challenges to young people, the difficulty of deschooling, the pendulum-swing between "authoritarian" and "permissive" parenting, and his faith in the Brightworks School model. Learn more about Aaron and his work at edunautics.com and eliadgroup.com.