Hans Ulrich Obrist is the director of Serpentine Gallery. In our conversation, we talk about the art of listening, learning from others, and how conversations and relationships are at the heart of Hans Ulrich’s work. We learn about his upbringing and early days of night train travels across Europe from one artist’s studio to another, and Hans Ulrich’s first exhibition, which was staged in his kitchen. We also dive into Hans Ulrich’s curatorial philosophy, working on projects which ask questions, invite audience participation, and are spread across time and locations. We then discuss the importance of archives and organising information, as well as the importance of long-term projects in a world dominated by short-terminism. -- Sign up to the On Design podcast newsletter at ondesignpodcast.com/newsletter. -- Podcast music and production: James Greenfield