Tea Törmänen and Marco Visscher join Ash Milton to discuss their recent article on how Finland's Greens chose nuclear energy and the differences between degrowth and ecomodernism. Recently, the Finnish Green Party has been leading the way among green movements in embracing nuclear energy. Tea and Marco tell us why that came to be and how it could be the future for the rest of Europe. The trio also discuss how human demography has and will shape energy consumption, and the question of degrowth-oriented environmental solutions that seem to prioritize "punishing" humanity more than redeeming it. Tea Törmänen is a Finland-based biologist and member of Finland’s Green Party. She is the International Coordinator of RePlanet. Marco Visscher is a Netherlands-based journalist and author of Waarom we niet bang hoeven te zijn voor kernenergie (Why We Need Not Fear Nuclear Energy).