Arjun Gupta and Elle Lipson join us to talk about episode 407, "The Side Effect" and the message at its heart, plus a deep dive into who Penny 40 sees at the end of the episode. This episode is noisier than normal -- a side effect, if you will, of Arjun's environment in Bombay. We think you'll enjoy it anyway, but you might want to listen to it in your car or over a speaker instead of on headphones!