Today’s episode is the first part of a conversation with Nicolas Pons-Vignon who played an instrumental role in setting up Aporde, the African Programme on Rethinking Development Economics, a unique training programme teaching heterodox development economics in South Africa. In this episode, we explore Nicolas’ personal research background and his outlook on South Africa’s post-apartheid developmental trajectory. We talk about some of the root causes of South African deindustrialization, the reception of neoliberal ideas by policymakers, the policy impact of neoclassical orthodoxy in economics departments, and the need for alternative, heterodox educational programs to broaden the horizons of policymakers in developing countries. After contextualising the reception of neoliberal ideas and policy templates in South Africa, we will continue this conversation with Nicolas in the subsequent episode by exploring how Aporde sought to offer an alternative educational model. To dig deeper, check out the texts included in the shared folder below! Aporde's website: http://www.aporde.co.za/ Nicolas' institutional website: https://www.supsi.ch/home_en/strumenti/rubrica/dettaglio.29083.backLink.79718207-24d5-44ab-8cec-be3898389703.html Readings on Industrial Restructuring and Developmental Policy in South Africa: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1m5aDsqbo-veqW7FEMDNfolzVEj7AyA6V?usp=sharing