This podcast series explores a game-changing understanding of the human mind 'before psychology' that can exponentially increase the performance, resourcefulness and well-being for any individual or organisation. This episode is a conversation with fellow coach and author Katrijn Van Oudheudsen. Katrijn points to the direct path non-dual understanding in her work around Servant and Selfless Leadership.  The discussion covers: - Why we can't do leadership development  - The implications of trying to reverse engineer personal development  - What is servant leadership development, from the 'self less' perspective - What do we become in life if we realise there is no doer - The difference between conceptual inquiry and sensing inquiry - Do we really have a body? - Some simple freewill thought experiments   Please leave any feedback or comments on the podcast, and if you want to ask a question please do so here https://sayhi.chat/QoM - we'd love to hear from you!! Curious - want to know more? You can find out more about Katrijn on LinkedIn here and her website and great book here For another episode on Leadership and Quality of Mind listen here  Watch past clients talk about the power of Quality of Mind here For a more in depth looking into the nondual understanding behind Quality of Mind  listen here  or here Find out more about the relevance of Quality of Mind   Subscribe to our Quality of Mind Youtube channel for a series of 2 min videos all about Quality of Mind Check out our other episodes, a curated list here Piers Thurston regularly writes about Quality of Mind on LinkedIn and has a large collection of articles and posts