Jamie Martin joins us to discuss his new book *The Meddlers: Sovereignty, Empire, and the Birth of Global Economic Governance.* After the first World War, the tools  that European empires had used to govern their colonies' economies were applied to Europe itself. To stabilize that respatialization politically, the victorious powers had to invent new institutions - what Martin calls "legitimation machines" - to justify treating European countries like colonies. The new institutions were supposed to legitimize global economic governance, but were castigated as "meddlers" as often as not. We ask him what we would have to do to escape the imperial roots of today's institutions. *** LINKS *** Follow Jamie Martin on twitter @jamiemartin2 Faculty page: https://history.fas.harvard.edu/people/jamie-martin Book page: https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674976542 Interview mentioned: https://www.thenation.com/article/culture/the-rotten-roots-of-global-economic-governance/ Wanting more? Check out other interviews Martin has done: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoOE3Qg_zN4&ab_channel=TheMajorityReportw%2FSamSeder https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RBIpteLAbk&ab_channel=HarvardBookStore