‘the rise of ISIL was a real turning point on global counter terrorism, only maybe eclipsed by 9/11' In this episode, Justine is joined by Dr. Hans-Jakob Schindler, Senior Director of the Counter Extremism Project, to talk about counter terrorism sanctions, the rise of ISIL (including lessons we can learn from it) and the wider impact of global terrorism. Hans was formerly Coordinator of the ISIL (Da’esh), al-Qaida and Taliban Sanctions Monitoring Team of the United Nations Security Council, where he briefed the members of the Security Council on the global terrorism threat and was responsible for the development of global counter terrorism sanctions. You can read Hans’s full bio at https://www.linkedin.com/in/hansjakobschindler.