There are plenty of ways for a leader to measure success – productivity, growth of a department, increased team moral, you name it! But in the case of this episode’s guest, he always has one metric in the back of his mind: how many people under his leadership have eventually worked their way up to become CISOs. In this episode, Microsoft CISO Bret Arsenault sits down with TikTok CSO, Roland Cloutier. Together they speak about how Roland’s career in the military granted him the discipline to excel in the world of cybersecurity and the leadership skills to provide opportunities for those around him to find just as much success.  In This Episode You Will Learn:  Why convergence of an organization’s tech teams is crucial for lasting security Why value chain risk assessment is critical in understanding and protecting your business How Roland considers his role as a driving force in the culture of security Some Questions We Ask:  How do you identify future demands when growing your team and workforce? What facets of Roland’s military training carried over into his role as CSO at TikTok? How has the role of CISO changed in the past decade?   Subscribe: https://SecurityUnlockedCISOSeries.com Resources: Roland Cloutier’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rolandcloutier/ Becoming a Global Chief Security Executive Officer: A How to Guide for Next Generation Security Leaders: https://www.amazon.com/Becoming-Global-Security-Executive-Officer/dp/0128027827 Say it with Charts: https://www.amazon.com/Say-Charts-Executives-Visual-Communication/dp/007136997X Bret Arsenault’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bret-arsenault-97593b60 Related:  Security Unlocked: The Microsoft Security Podcast https://SecurityUnlockedPodcast.com Security Unlocked: CISO Series with Bret Arsenault is produced by Microsoft and distributed as part of The CyberWire Network.