Kris Kelly-Frère is a singular individual.  When we first met at a design event, the room was filled with austere design folk in cookie-cutter black t-shirt and black jeans. Kris was the only person wearing a kimono.   You just knew that he'd have something interesting to say. It turned out that Kris has a lot to say about the concept of Play . Especially how fostering the conditions for play helps groups to collaboratively design better and bolder solutions that are relevant for them and their stakeholders. He's passionate about taking concepts developed for encouraging autonomous and intrinsically  motivated play in kids and applying this to service design engagements.  This very different approach, has yielded very different outcomes with materially better impact. There are two things to note in the podcast.  First, although we started out with the intention of following our  YAP interview framework, Kris' "natural talent for storytelling" meant that we  departed from the framework before we'd really started... and the episode is all the better for it.  At one point a woman dresses as a bee and rides a penny farthing.  Sometimes you have to give in and go with it.  Second, this is the first time that we've used AI to edit the episode. The results were interesting, rather than time saving. I'm sure that things will improve. About Kris As Creative Practice Lead for J5 Design, Kristofer Kelly-Frere makes magic serious business and wants to help you explore the edges of what seems possible. J5 is a design studio dedicated to creating a kinder, more beautiful future together in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. With more than 15 years of experience in senior design roles, Kristofer has worked across a range of public, private, and government institutions to craft experiences, lead deep engagement, found design labs, and deliver ground-breaking social impact projects. Kristofer led the team responsible for “Braver Training Grounds” - a project with Red Deer Housing Authority that won the 2022 Global Service Design Award. Success like this is the result of his love for playing in the mud of ambiguity in order to move innovative dreams across the threshold into reality. Links & Peeps  that Kris mentioned in our podcast: The Land.  A short film about adventure play in England/North America.  Kris said that he's  intrigued by the kinds of questions it asks if you start thinking about comparing the dynamics between the play workers and kids vs. designers and clients. And for me lets us think about the magic and messy space between design (solutions) and art (questions) that we might call play. In the episode Kris mention some incredible folks who have influenced his  practice. Erin Dumenko, Lisa Latouche (https://lnkd.in/gKqsjrfB), Meghan Durieux, Moraig McCabe  Service Design YAP is developed and produced by the Service Design Network UK Chapter. Its aim is to engage and connect the wider Service Design community. Episode Host: Stephen Wood Production Assistance: Jean Watanya