This is Part 2 of Patrick McGreevy's ABA & PT Podcast interview. In this episode, we'll learn more about how the standard celeration chart works and how a slight difference in its size can cause the frequency multiplier to be distorted. Patrick emphasizes the benefits of using frequency data over percentage correct, among other things. He also recalls the final moments of Ogden's life.   Join our The ABA and PT Podcast Facebook Group to get access to the following resources: Facebook group link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/397478901376425 Check out the podcast on your favorite platform! Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-aba-and-ot-podcast/id1538336498 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7ieqLjFH8ekw2DA0VTWJno Google Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkLnBvZGJlYW4uY29tL3RoZWFiYWFuZG90cG9kY2FzdC9mZWVkLnhtbA== Stitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/show/the-aba-and-ot-podcast Podbean: https://theabaandotpodcast.podbean.com Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/abaandptpodcast   HIGHLIGHTS 0:36 Pat goes on to discuss how he came to understand and appreciate Ogden's mission. 6:58 The scientific community's reluctance to use a standard celeration chart is explained.  10:39 Data's power: Frequency versus percent correct 25:26 The rationale behind why tolerating errors is viewed as a teaching opportunity.  28:26 Renaming the Y axis on the chart: Purpose and application. 34:00 Why does the correct size of the chart matter?  40:05 Pat reminisces about Og’s final moments. 47:43 About the upcoming new version of his book, Essential for Living.  52:39 Without hesitation: Pat defines the first opportunity probe.  1:01:19 Pat gives emphasis on frequency.  1:07:38 How long-timers like himself help the younger generation have a sense of connection.   RESOURCES Learn about Journal of applied behavior analysis Check out Patrick’s book, Essential for Living (*Amazon affiliate link)   QUOTES 05:57 "Science doesn't progress without standard measurement. You can't decide to measure things however you want to in whatever unit you want to. That has to be accepted by the scientific community. " 11:18 "You see, if you don't include those elements [occurrence of behaviour and time], then anything that you purport to be measurement is less sensitive to changes than it would be if you had included those elements." 16:21 "That is how a chart shows up, that you can immediately come in contact with the learning of that student because of how much information that our chat conveys. It's phenomenal." 18:22 "It's important to remember that when you go to percent, you lose fluency." 24:29 "There are certain things that you can practice over and over again for a minute or 30 seconds or 20 seconds or whatever, but certain things just aren't feasible."