Jonathan and Chris speak to Anna Merlan, a senior reporter with Motherboard and the author of the book Republic of Lies: American Conspiracy Theorists and Their Surprising Rise to Power. How has the anti-vaccine movement changed since the COVID-19 pandemic? Its influencers deny the “mainstream narrative” on vaccine safety, which makes them prone to embrace other conspiracy theories. And what happens when one of their leading figures makes a run for the American presidency? (1:18) Today’s anti-vaccine influencers (7:09) Malice versus stupidity (8:20) The anti-vaxx media ecosystem (10:46) Doctors becoming anti-vaccine (12:23) RFK Jr. for the presidency (20:20) Contradictions in the conspiracy world (23:50) How do you responsibly interview an anti-vaxxer (or a cholesterol-denying doctor)? (29:44) Debating vaccine safety (39:41) Are all anti-vaxxers conspiritualists? (46:02) How profitable is the anti-vaccine industry? (48:48) How much opposition to vaccines is due to the needle? (53:59) Reconciling Pharma skepticism and a pro-vaccine stance   * Theme music: “Fall of the Ocean Queen“ by Joseph Hackl.  To contribute to The Body of Evidence, go to our Patreon page at: http://www.patreon.com/thebodyofevidence/. Patrons get a bonus show on Patreon called “Digressions”! Check it out!   Links: 1) Anna Merlan on Twitter: https://twitter.com/annamerlan 2) Anna Merlan on Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/annamerlan.bsky.social 3) Anna Merlan’s Vice News author page: https://www.vice.com/en/contributor/anna-merlan 4) Anna Merlan’s email address: anna(dot)merlan(a)vice(dot)com