In this conversation, Etienne and Dave reminisce about their early experiences with computers and programming. They discuss the different computer models they had, the challenges of typing in code from magazines, and the evolution of technology. They then shift the conversation to their roles as VP of Engineering and CTO, and the differences between the two positions. They talk about the importance of product management and design in software development, and the value of delivering in small batches. They also discuss the concept of lean software development and the economic mindset behind it. The conversation explores the conundrum of developers being resistant to working on new features and instead over-engineering existing ones. The fear of the unknown and the comfort of familiarity play a role in this resistance. The conversation also delves into the importance of prototyping and experimentation in the development process. The concept of failure and its relationship to learning and psychological safety is discussed. The impact of different communication mediums, such as texting and video calls, on team culture and effectiveness is explored. The conversation concludes with a discussion on measuring team productivity and effectiveness through inputs, outputs, outcomes, and impact. Time Stamps 00:00 - Reminiscing about Early Computers and Programming 13:16 - The Differences Between VP of Engineering and CTO 24:23 - Delivering in Small Batches for Faster Feedback 26:47 - Embracing the Economic Mindset in Lean Software Development 35:50 - Developers' Resistance to New Features 38:10 - Prototyping and Experimentation 44:33 - Failure and Learning 51:20 - Impact of Communication Mediums 01:04:53 - Measuring Team Productivity and Effectiveness The CTO Podcast is honored to be featured among Feedspot's top 45 C-suite podcasts. We have 200+ CTOs in peer groups: Quick Testimonials Video Contact Etienne: Website / YouTube / LinkedIn / X / Instagram / The CTO Podcast WebsiteContact Dave: LinkedIn / Website Get full access to The CTO Podcast at www.ctopod.com/subscribe