Host: Steve Macchia, Guest: Dennis Baril “God’s empowering Presence is a value and a relationship, not a doctrine.” –Dennis Baril  Dennis Baril was part of the original research team for Becoming a Healthy Church. In this episode, Dennis sits down with Steve to share a conversation about the first trait of a healthy church, a value for God’s empowering Presence. Before serving as a senior pastor, Dennis managed multi-million-dollar accounts for a corporation as a middle manager. He discovered that leading a healthy church was more difficult than working on such large accounts. Today, Dennis travels the country with his wife encouraging church leaders. From this unique perspective, Dennis shares reflections on the church today as a father, grandfather, and church leader.  Join the conversation about spiritual discernment as a way of life at www.LeadershipTransformations.org and consider participation in our online and in-person program offerings. Additional LTI spiritual formation resources can be found at www.SpiritualFormationStore.com and www.ruleoflife.com and www.healthychurch.net.