We have the privilege of speaking with Todd Wilson in this episode. He’s the former founder of Exponential and the current directional team leader of the Renew Movement. Todd and Matt Dabbs dive into the challenges and statistics surrounding disciple making in U.S. churches. Our current plan to use church programs for church growth has created a barriers to a real disciple-making culture. Wilson argues for a shift towards relational disciple making as a primary way of growth, especially after the impact COVID has had on church trends. We need a new paradigm. You know it and I know it. We need one that embraces relational disciple making to ensure the future of church growth. Check out Renew Movement: https://renew-movement.org/  Registration to our National Disciple Making Forum (Disciple Making Culture) is now open. Use discount code podcast to get $25 off your ticket.  Check out the National Study on Disciple Making in USA Churches Interested in taking an assessment on Disciple Making: Individual Disciple Maker Assessment Key Takeaways  00:00 Introduction and Guest Introduction 00:24 Exploring the Mission and Impact of Exponential 00:45 The Tipping Point in Church Planting and Discipleship 02:14 Strategic Shifts in Church Planting Post-Exponential 03:21 Renew Movement: A New Direction in Church Planting 04:06 The Impact of COVID-19 on Church Dynamics 06:56 Unpacking the Study on Disciple Making Culture 09:13 Challenges and Realities of Institutional Church Growth 16:17 Redefining Church Culture for Future Generations 41:09 The Economic and Paradigm Shifts Required for Change 46:12 Closing Thoughts and Future Directions   Join us at our National Forum this May on Disciple Making Culture