For Part 1 of this conversation click HERE In this episode, Matt Dabbs talks with Todd Wilson for part 2 on their conversation about the challenges the American church faces in creating a culture of disciple making. A national study shows only 4% of churches have a disciple-making culture, and Todd gives us insight as to why that is, focusing on the fact that churches with a lot of programs or consumer-driven churches actually hinder discipleship. We need a change in our church’s operating systems. Todd introduces six key elements that are crucial for establishing a new model that prioritizes relational disciple making. Check out Renew Movement: https://renew-movement.org/  Registration to our National Disciple Making Forum (Disciple Making Culture) is now open.  Check out the National Study on Disciple Making in USA Churches Interested in taking an assessment on Disciple Making: Individual Disciple Maker Assessment Key Takeaways  00:00 Diving into Disciple Making Culture in American Churches 01:26 The Challenge of Changing Church Operating Systems 05:37 Exploring the Impact of the Church Growth Movement 14:21 Redefining Success: From Mega Churches to Disciple Making 23:01 The Operating System of the Church: A Deep Dive 25:06 Unveiling the Constraint: The Operating System in Church Growth 26:05 The Illusion of Model Tweaking in Church Growth 27:12 The Gravity of Programmatic Reproduction in Church Planting 28:19 Breaking Free: The Challenge of Escape Velocity in Church Innovation 29:47 The Asymptotic Barrier: Navigating Growth Limits in Churches 31:50 Rethinking Church Growth: The Need for a New Operating System 34:17 Introducing a New Operating System for Church Planting 37:43 Dissecting the New Operating System: Elements and Questions 46:05 Mobilization and the Future of Church Planting 46:26 Wrapping Up: The Importance of Disciple Making Culture Join us at our National Forum this May on Disciple Making Culture