Trevor Hudson is a Methodist minister, pastoral therapist, and retreat leader in South Africa. He is the author of several books and travels widely to conduct conferences, workshops, and retreats In this episode Matthew speaks with Trevor about learning and practice in the way of Jesus. Among others things, Trevor reminds us in this conversation that we do not think or control our way into deeper friendship with Jesus. We interact our way there.  To find Trevors' book Seeking God, you can follow this link  To find out more about follower you can visit www.wearefollower.com