Introduction: Dr. Ajit Menon is a business psychologist and consultant and co-founder of Blacklight Advisory a specialist organisational consultancy to a diverse range of clients. Ajit is also faculty of the London School of Economics, Tavistock and Portman NHS Trust. He is also co-author with Trevor Hough of the book this podcast showcases; What lies beneath how organisations really work.  Trevor Hough is a clinical psychologist, executive coach, and organisational development consultant. Trevor is a self-confessed nomad, living all over the World furthering his interest in diverse cultural experiences. Trevor works with Ajit as a Principal Consultant at Blacklight Advisory outside of his own consultancy practice. Trevor’s great interest is in the outdoors especially the African Bush where he has recently trained as a field and trails guide.   Podcast Episode Summary Eight crafted stories about Organisational Life are illuminated in the book What Lies Beneath: How organisations really work, by the authors Trevor Hough and Ajit Menon. They show how problems of Culture, Succession, Transition & Leadership Team Alignment are often masked by underlying and often unconscious emotions of fear, anxiety, envy, uncertainty and abandonment. The resulting defences of denial, blame, splitting, pairing and collusion blur the view of the “real” problem which needs to be solved by the client. Ajit and Trevor share how tricky this terrain can be in the eight stories they share in their book. The work of organisational development is complex and it serves a Coach/Consultant to not only be paired in the work but also to have regular supervision.   Points made over the episode Ajit and Trevor share an interest & history that could be described as nomadic  Important to appreciate difference in the many cultural contexts the work entails.  As an organisational consultant, working in and out of organisations all of the time it behoves the consultant to be able to sit “at the edge of the system” & not collude by a desire to belong.  Ajit shares that one of the first question he & Trevor often ask clients is “what else?” or What else is going on?  so as to resist the temptation to prematurely rush to solution  Clients are very rarely completely right and it takes considered contracting to scope a solution or potential solution to a presenting issue.  Problems lie at a human level even though we would like to think they are all technical Working with a client system is never just about the client alone,  it is about the consultant as well. What you bring, your views, the lens by which you see the world etc. are all played out.  The book while a slim product is full of depth in how it explores what lies beneath in an organisation and by what it evokes in the reader.  How can we as coaches and consultants impact and influence the system? Ajit and Trevor responded by saying often the coach has to be willing to use self as instrument and notice what is being evoked. The story about the client in the fashion house in Paris, explored later, is an example of such.  Question what draws you to do the work-looking beneath can often mean an uncomfortable enquiry.  A big part of the work is about understanding our own process. Awareness is key.  Peer supervision is not to be feared it is a different type of workout.  Supervision is about doing work on the work  The yearning by coaches to be liked is dangerous. Often Clients do not like what we have to say. That’s OK  Our role is asocial -we have to think about what is good for the client and not our ego.  Ajit & Trevor are called into client systems to consider topics like, A CEO in Transition, Culture Change, Succession, Leadership Team Alignment and they are both apt to ask “If that is the answer why is coaching the solution? If team building is the solution what is the problem it can help address”  Inquiry is a positive intervention and can serve to illuminate