As the Managing Director of Two Sigma, and Author of The Manager’s Path: A Guide for Tech Leaders Navigating Growth and Change, Camille Fournier talks about making teams effective and delivering outcome for business, hiring and getting the right people in the door in the first place, and aligning yourself with the values of your company. Every few weeks as part of The Heartbeat, I ask one question to a founder, CEO, or business owner I respect about their biggest leadership lesson learned. This week, I interview Camille Fournier, the Managing Director of Two Sigma, and Author of The Manager’s Path: A Guide for Tech Leaders Navigating Growth and Change. CLAIRE: Hi, everyone. I’m Claire Lew and I’m the CEO of Know Your Team, we’re a software tool that helps managers avoid becoming a bad boss. Today on The Heartbeat, I am truly honored to have a super special guest on the show. I have Camille Fournier who is the Managing Director of Two Sigma, this investment hedge firm that uses technology as a part of their platform in their investments. But Camille is probably best known for writing this amazing book, which if you haven’t picked it up, you can see my little tabs and notes. It’s called The Manager’s Path: A Guide for Tech Leaders Navigating Growth and Change. Prior to this, I was telling Camille that we’ve got this online leadership community called The Watercooler with thousands of managers, and Camille’s book is honestly one of the most recommended books amongst managers. I never stop hearing about it. And for good reason, there’s so many things I want to ask you about. So, we’ll talk about that. And Camille is also, this is pretty notable, formerly the CTO for Rent the Runway, as well. So, no shortage of experience and wisdom. So excited to chat with you today, Camille, and ask you this one question about leadership. CAMILLE: OK. Let’s hear it. CLAIRE: You ready? CAMILLE: OK. CLAIRE: The question that I’ve been dying to ask you is what’s one thing, or could be several things, that you wish you would have known earlier as a leader? CAMILLE: There’s so many things. CLAIRE: Yeah, you wrote a book about it, pretty much. CAMILLE: Certainly one thing, I think, is that just because you are in a management position, in a leadership position, in a senior leadership position, generally speaking, you still can’t tell people what to do. If the idea is that if I just become a senior enough leader, if I just get to a certain point in my career, point in my leadership track, I will be able to control everything and make everything go and happen the way that I want it to happen. CLAIRE: It’s not true. CAMILLE: It’s not even not true. It’s like almost the opposite of true. You will get less control the more senior you become. Certainly, what control you have is still much more indirect than I think you can ever possibly expect as someone who’s earlier in their career. So a lot of people say, “You should not go into management if you want to go into management only because you want to control things,” or whatever, which I think is true. But I also think there a